tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post7930418108075997509..comments2024-03-28T20:53:06.885-04:00Comments on Joan Soble: So Already . . . : Global Competence? Deeper Learning? Technical Skills? . . . For Everybody or Some? . . . Says Who?Joan Soblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428565769358582476noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-39316495757458620252014-04-06T08:59:11.249-04:002014-04-06T08:59:11.249-04:00It might be a good idea, but I worry about corpora...It might be a good idea, but I worry about corporate controlled funding. Whoever funds has the power.<br /><br />I have a general approach to my work that I did not invent. In fact, you probably have taught the approach in some context.<br /><br />1. Think of all the problems, big and small. Do not try to limit your imagination.<br /><br />2. Group problems together, and prioritize.<br /><br />3. Think up possible solutions. Do not try to limit your imagination.<br /><br />4. Select most likely solutions that address the top priority problem(s), and that you might have allies to implement.<br /><br />5. Organize.<br /><br />In our social and political culture of the past 20 years, there is an abundance of step 1 and 2. Bloggers.<br /><br />There are a few 3 and 4. Not too many.<br /><br />Almost no 5.<br /><br />We need 5.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13178564939320109691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-6184731649409988122014-04-04T09:20:06.644-04:002014-04-04T09:20:06.644-04:00It's articles like this one that make me want ...It's articles like this one that make me want businesses that hire folks without college degrees to support--minimally with the best financial advice possible, but ideally with time and money--their trained workers who lack college degrees: <br /><br />http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/04/03/coakley-sues-for-profit-school-alleging-deceptive-practices-led-few-jobs-high-student-debt/Wx8ckr9Gycr60e4dwfemCP/story.html<br /><br />When education, is first and foremost a for-profit endeavor, students literally and figuratively pay the price.Joan Soblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428565769358582476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-10719201441392125622014-04-03T21:52:44.337-04:002014-04-03T21:52:44.337-04:00Since school is happening, as you say, I'll sp...Since school is happening, as you say, I'll spend more time on them in my next post. Too much of the best teaching that happens today flies under the radar, but as long as it can keep flying that way, that may be kids' greatest hope!!Joan Soblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428565769358582476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-88234895407536948832014-04-03T18:55:00.753-04:002014-04-03T18:55:00.753-04:00Hi, Jim --
First of all, hope you're feeling ...Hi, Jim --<br /><br />First of all, hope you're feeling better. <br /><br />And I actually didn't feel your first response to my post was an attack. I've found your comments good fodder for my own thinking, both in terms of the education issues and purposes of blogging and writing for a public more generally.<br /><br />I can’t tell you how excited I am that a non-educator such as yourself is willing to think about this.<br /><br />"I've got fury in my soul" when it comes to education, to quote Laura Nyro’s song "Save The Country." But I’ve got that teacher tendency to raise questions rather than answer them, even though I often have an idea of at least a good partial answer. <br /><br />I also have worked for a couple of bosses who retaliated against those with “different” ideas, subtlely but surely. I sometimes shared questions rather than answers to protect myself and my colleagues. You’re reminding me that a reason I started this blog was to say what I felt I better not say before; those bosses have no power over me now!<br /><br />So here’s an answer, and I’m going to try to offer more in future blog posts. It has to do with both this blog post and my previous one, in which I talk about Sarah E. Goode STEM Academy. <br /><br />If there's going to continue to be a link between salary level and level of education, I want industries that are pleased to hire young people with good technical skills, with or without associate's degrees, to develop programs or policies that make it possible time- and/or money-wise for these employees to earn college diplomas. <br /><br />Boston subway cars are full of ads for relatively inexpensive degree programs with evening and weekend classes. But relatively inexpensive is prohibitively expensive for some, especially if daycare or nightcare costs are added. Would love to see employers offer education sabbaticals (or even half-time sabbaticals) to people with high school diplomas or associate’s degrees—because learning, like working full-time, goes better when one isn’t completely exhausted.<br /><br />I don’t see this “2 more years of college-level work” (the associate’s degree folks already have 2 years) as being about workplace content skills. I’m envisioning an opportunity for thinking and talking about those subjects that seemed stupid and unimportant in high school—and important now. I’m talking humanities, arts, social sciences—as retro as they are considered to be by many.<br /><br />I like your secular town square idea a lot, including your emphasis on fun. I see the online world as having some great educational uses, but I don’t think it replicates the kind of exchange you can have around a table or in a square.<br /><br />You also write, “Yeah, I know, some stuff is happening in that area. But no one really believes it is IMPORTANT. We do not place much emphasis on it, and little creativity is directed that way.” I believe there’s a lot of creativity that is being directed that way, but not by the people with power, money, and status, who won’t think it’s important until they can invest in it and profit.<br /><br />More soon about "what is to be done?" <br />JSSJoan Soblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428565769358582476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-9996159451353611712014-04-02T11:04:35.896-04:002014-04-02T11:04:35.896-04:00Home sick, today. Idle hands, and all that.
When...Home sick, today. Idle hands, and all that.<br /><br />When I read through my first comment, I was struck that it might seem like an attack on your post. Actually, I liked your post. Smart and thoughtful (they don’t always go together). Still.<br /><br />Still, what?<br /><br />I guess my view is that writing should have one of two purposes: a call to some specific action, or general consciousness-raising. Maybe your post struck me as half way in between.<br /><br />The only part of your post I did not like was the appeal to rational decision-making at the end. Clearly, that will not happen. Politics, as we do practice it, is not about that. So an appeal to a general, chimerical process is a cop-out.<br /><br />First option: answer your own questions, and tell us exactly what we should do. Second option, go visionary on us. Obviously, the first approach is far more helpful.<br /><br />My response to your post was in the less helpful second category. Indeed, it is a high bar to ever demonstrate that the second approach is helpful, and, well, as for my response -- let’s not go there.<br /><br />But playing devil’s advocate, why should we fundamentally re-think our approach to education?<br /><br />First, our democracy has been growing weaker during the past 35 years, and especially during the last 20 years. It started with the end of the Fairness Doctrine in broadcasting law, abetted by the rise of cable and satellite technology. The decline has accelerated with the destruction of campaign funding restrictions, and the increased military/intelligence agencies in response to 9/11 and the political uses made of 9/11.<br /><br />So there is that. Our society is increasingly dominated by propaganda.<br /><br />Your husband is correct (as about so many things, no doubt); we need educated citizens.<br /><br />We also need more wisdom and happiness as a part of our daily routine. (Everything has to be made part of a daily routine to be real.) We are social animals. We need social routines.<br /><br />We have churches, but those often do more harm than good. We have parent activities that center around the school life of children, but that is limited in time and focus. We have bars. Lions and Elks Clubs, I guess. That is about it.<br /><br />In my view, continuing education programs could become a secular town square. But it would have to be fun.<br /><br />Yeah, I know, some stuff is happening in that area. But no one really believes it is IMPORTANT. We do not place much emphasis on it, and little creativity is directed that way.<br /><br />If you know otherwise because of your inside information, then that confirms that it does not exist to any significant extent. If you need insider information, it is not a general force.<br /><br />Anyway, that is why I was inspired to rabble-rouse to the 12 people who read my response to your post. :)<br /><br />I think there are extreme limits to what can be achieved IN TERMS OF SOCIETY’S NEEDS (not for an individual student) through reforming high school. In my view, it is go long, or go home. Our universities have to chip in, and we need to get serious about building continuing education social life into everyday living.<br /><br />The flip side is that high school IS happening, and continuing education is NOT happening in any meaningful way, and is unlikely to be happening in any meaningful way anytime soon, so it is insane to fret about nothing when there is something important that can be addressed right now. From that point of view, your post is relevant, and my response is raving.<br /><br />Probably that is the right answer.<br /><br />Anyway, at the end, we are back at the beginning: what is to be done?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13178564939320109691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-63046994682796041872014-03-31T13:03:43.619-04:002014-03-31T13:03:43.619-04:00Hi, Jim --
Interesting to read your thoughts abou...Hi, Jim --<br /><br />Interesting to read your thoughts about which institutions are washing their hands of all of this, even though we could "end up cheering for . . . [our] own demise.<br /><br />I agree with you that job skills are terribly important for lots of kids who are not going to go to college right away, or perhaps ever. Like you, I hope that for those of them who choose to pursue more education, or simpler more knowledge, later for whatever reason, there are employers and opportunities that will make that easier rather than harder in terms of time and money. <br /><br />My husband Scott talks a lot about the need for a self-governing people to be well-educated in order to choose wisely for itself as a people. Your "cope with the world" phrase resonates with me a lot!<br /><br />Thanks, Jim!<br />JSS<br />Joan Soblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428565769358582476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3714709754261276888.post-85239999289852441782014-03-27T22:01:31.829-04:002014-03-27T22:01:31.829-04:00I think a big part of the problem is that we equat...I think a big part of the problem is that we equate education with school, and with degrees.<br /><br />As citizens, we are at the mercy of global politics, and we need to be generally educated just to survive. Think of the families swept into war, or worse, the families who dive into war. <br /><br />I am reminded of the chilling conclusion to Thunder At Twilight where the crowds in Vienna cheered madly as their sons marched in uniform off to World War I. They roared approval for fighting that killed and maimed so many, completely swept aside their world, and set the stage for depression and another war 25 years later. Wisdom is not a luxury; it is a necessity. <br /><br />It was true then, and it is true today with the rule of billionaires, a surveillance society, climate change, and non-stop war all looming.<br /><br />But you are not going to teach wisdom in high school. The kids are in a blender of emotions; too much else to learn. At best, you might give them a head start.<br /><br />Education needs to be a lifelong pursuit, and an accepted civic routine. Continuing education that is fun and social. Plenty of 20 somethings and older would show up to meet people, and, hey, maybe learn something.<br /><br />Imaginative video learning would attract eyeballs. I know you have told me that so much of that is already being done, but I do not believe it. Not on the level that it needs to be to attract a broad audience.<br /><br />Also, our universities are completely failing the public by narrowly restricting themselves to “their jobs” -- churning out degrees.<br /><br />In an age where print journalism has died, cable journalism is the most outrageous tabloid entertainment, and propaganda organs for the powerful (“think tanks”) easily dominate public discourse, where are the universities? Not their job to get involved.<br /><br />It damn well should be. Universities should form consortiums, and run programs where college kids build and update websites about public affairs and public debate. And do lots of other stuff to ENGAGE with the real world in real time.<br /><br />In a society where the rules of Congress make absolutely no goddamn sense, where are the law schools or government schools proposing new rules? Not their jobs.<br /><br />As a society, we need to come to a new understanding about what education we need, and build new institutions to provide education to people when they are ready to learn, and in a fashion that will make it appealing to learn.<br /><br />And most of that is not about reforming high school. High school is the wrong time and place for most of the education that we need. Kids are whacked out on hormones and the traumas of becoming adults.<br /><br />Probably high school should do more to make available programs for kids to learn job skills, assuming that the kids won’t go to college. I am not sure it is a big crisis, but I think pretending that everyone will go to college makes it a stigma to just become a working joe. And, anyway, it is dishonest. Some kids NEED some sort of training and orientation to help them get entry to the work force. But those same kids are going to need continuing education to cope with their world. Just because we may send some kids to shop class does not mean that those same kids don’t need to learn history and music down the road.<br /><br />Otherwise, they may end up cheering for their own demise, like their great-grandparents did.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13178564939320109691noreply@blogger.com